Kids from the 90’s and the early 00’s might remember that one artist— Vitamin C? Mostly because she had that one song…who knows what it was actually called… but it was frequently referred to as “The Graduation Song.” And everyone knew it. What they likely didn’t know was that Vitamin C had this whole album and buried somewhere in the middle— track seven to be exact— was this song called “Girls Against Boys.” It was this futuristic song all about if women ruled the world and how different things would be, etc. And when gearing up to do an interview about a play called Mankind by playwright Robert O’Hara (whose known for his insane absurdist work, think Booty Candy, among others), and researching the play’s premise— “…women are extinct, everyone’s gay, abortion is illegal, and Jason got pregnant…”— I couldn’t help but think of that futuristic song by Vitamin C and think, “was Robert O’Hara trying to spin the anti-response to that song?” probably not, but isn’t the point of theatre to make you think?

TheatreBloom has sat down with Director Ann Turiano, the female director of an all-male cast and all-male play, making its area debut with Iron Crow Theatre (Baltimore’s Queer Theatre) this fall, to ‘talk shop’ about this futuristic, absurdist play which feels frighteningly appropriate for the times.

Thank you for taking some time to talk with us! Tell us who you are and what your involvement with this project is and we’ll get started.

Ann Turiano: I’m Ann Turiano, I’m a resident artist with Iron Crow and I’m the director of Mankind. I’ve been a resident artist for years and years, and so Sean— Artistic Director Sean Elias— had been putting together a very different season for the ‘return from Covid’ season. He was trying to come back with a lot of light entertainment, you know, fun stuff to just get people to come back out and go to the theatre. And then Roe v Wade was overturned. And when that happened, Sean told me that it seemed suddenly much more pressing to address some of the more topical, political issues that were happening. And that seemed to be a space that Baltimore’s Queer Theatre seemed to be primed to do.

Sean found this play— Mankind. And Iron Crow has produced Robert O’Hara’s work before. This particular work has not been produced in many places. It’s not a new work for O’Hara— it’s 2017. It’s from way before and yet somehow horrifyingly relevant to what’s happening right now. Isn’t that interesting? It’s no longer just this dystopian piece; it’s the reality that we might and could be living in. Sean came to me and said, “you’re like an angry feminist, crazy queer woman.” And I said, “yes. This is true.” I think the idea was that because this is an all-male play that has a lot to say about women, let’s put a woman in charge and have her direct it. And I think that’s pretty cool!

What are your thoughts and reflections on the project as a whole, how do you feel about it?

Ann: So excited! I have an incredible cast. It’s a mix of new folks, old folks, Baltimore theatre royalty— like Timoth David Copney and Nicholas Miles— it’s really incredible. And me and the cast, we have these great conversations. We’ll be discussing things and coming across specific lines or scenes, which are supposed to be satire and funny and humorous, and we have to stop because we’ll realize or someone will point out, “actually no, that just happened in real life to a ten-year-old girl.” It’s hilarious and really heartbreaking. It’s wild that you can go such polar opposites from one play.

One of the things I’m super excited about is that I believe men and women will have completely different reactions. Depending on what side of the room you’re looking at it from its either going to be funny or heartbreaking. When men hear about this concept, they laugh. When women hear about this concept, they just nod, understand, and say “yeah.” It hits different now that we’re living through it.

This was not originally a part of the 2022/2023 Iron Crow Theatre ‘return-to-live-theatre’ season but came into play because of the current political climate. How is this production impacting you personal and what of yourself, of your— ‘crazy queer woman’ self— are you bringing to the table?

Ann: Natka (Board of Directors member Natka Bianchini) and I are the ‘feminist rage’ of Iron Crow. She and I have the ‘angry feminist lady director club.’ I was in Collective Rage with her and we share a lot of similar viewpoints in that arena, and I’m definitely bringing that into this production. Iron Crow has this pattern here. They did one female show and then there was another female show. Mankind is moving away from that in a very interesting way. It’s like the flipside. It’s this weird all-man-show but it’s all about women. There’s not a single woman on stage. And yet— all about women.

What has been your biggest challenge thus far with bringing Mankind to life?

Ann: Comedy is way harder than drama. It’s a lot of work, you have to be really precise and polished. But I think the biggest challenge is that Robert O’Hara is not holding back. He’s right there, in your face with this cutting, audaciousness. Nobody gets left behind. It’s women, it’s feminism, it’s our political climate, it’s male politicians, it’s doctors, it’s everyone— nobody is safe from his satire. The challenge has been really leaning into that. I’ve never had an opportunity like that before. To just grab it by the balls and be like “okay— we’re angry!” And that’s really cool but it’s still such a huge challenge.

I know you said you have a really great cast, you’d mentioned Timoth and Nicholas, but how big is your cast?

Ann: So there’s six. The two leads are brand new to me— Max Johnson and Jake Stibbe— and I believe Jake is actually new to Baltimore theatre. They are both going wholeheartedly into this, from day one— great chemistry, great vulnerability, no holding back. I’ve spent a lot of time directing at local universities, and that’s a great and different experience. But to be in a room where your actors are trained, prepared, and ready to go from the very first day is a fucking treasure.

What would you say you’re hoping that audiences will take away from coming to see Mankind?

Ann: I was asking my cast about this and we were all pretty much in agreement. The play does not end in a neat bow. You’re not going to feel resolved at the end of the show. But you will walk away thinking about it. It’s the kind of show that will burrow its way into your brain. The next time you’re reading the front page of the newspaper— or however you read your news these days— you’re going to have that moment, “oh yeah. I remember that from that play.” This play is full of these visual, maximalist moments, especially for Theatre Project.

That’s right, you’re at Theatre Project for this production. So what is the production design going to look like in that vast black box space?

Ann: We’re going all in. We’re not doing projections. We’re building. There is a whole feminist temple. Bruce Kaplan (Scenic/Technical Designer) is a saint and he has not said no to one single thing I have asked of him. We’re being outrageous and going maximalist. Not to ruin the plot or anything, but when the religion gets formed around the dead child— ‘Cry Baby’— there’s a 16-foot idol in the temple. And we’re building it. The sentences that come out of my mouth when trying to describe the work I’m doing on this project; it is unhinged. “Yeah, I have to go online and shop for newborn dolls and find one that squirts blood.” Trust me, it will forever ruin your shopping algorithm.

You had talked a little bit about the feminist-rage elemental component you’re bringing to the production. And you’ve got six male cast members, and you’ve just mentioned a male designer. Are you the only female involved with the project? What has that been like?

Ann: The company as a whole has a great handle on gender diversity, which should come as no surprise as we’re Baltimore’s Queer Theatre. And while yes, it’s looking a little male heavy for this production, we’ve still got a pretty solid spread. We have trans and non-binary stage managers, we have female housing designer and dramaturg, so ‘the room’, in terms of cast and crew is very mixed, it just looks male-heavy because of the cast.

What is it like being the woman in charge of all these men in your show?

Ann: It’s been wonderful. They are so graceful and generous I have not one bad thing to say about any of them. I think a lot about this, actually. I walked into this project worrying a lot about the gender dynamics. But it’s been great. Obviously the kind of people who are going to show up to audition for a show about everyone being gay and abortion is illegal, that’s a certain set of people. But to be fair, there are very few opportunities, I think, to actively participate in politics via theatre in this way. So I think that alone made it a draw and that is part of what is making it such a unique experience for me.

Is there a moment in the show that really defines your big ‘take-away’ message from this show?

Ann: What a great question! On a personal level, I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I was raised as a Catholic. So— trauma. I did many years in Catholic school; it colonized my brain. I’m most connected to that criticism of religion. When I was 12, I have this memory of being dragged to a ‘March For Life’ on a bus. And looking back on that— it’s just horrifying. You’ve got this group of 12-year-old girls, attending an anti-abortion rally, giving a standing ovation and they have no idea why. I feel so gross about that. It’s funny that I’ve become the person that I am today in spite of that. I’m the classic example of pendulum swinging hard in the opposite direction. So it makes me wonder, as I go through this production, about all the other people out there, maybe like me, who have been indoctrinated and have no control over it?

The abortion debate comes up for me as well. It’s a prominent theme in the show and we could talk all day about what’s happening with it out in the real world, and what the internet has done to that— but at the end of the day, for me, it’s ‘you are who you are, you believe what you believe, and there shouldn’t be any middle ground.’ I mean this play makes me think deeply— like that woman who wrote her book about how proud she is to show up at abortion clinics to protest with her garbage can full of baby-doll parts, hoping to make people feel bad about themselves for choosing abortion. I think a lot about stuff like that, more so now because of being involved with this production.

Are there trigger and sensitivity warnings for this production of Mankind? It sounds like there are some extremely intense topics covered inside; are there people who maybe shouldn’t see this show?

Ann: To be fair, the play deals with abortion and pregnancy. I could create a mile-long list for you about all the triggering topics that the play touches on, but like I said before— Robert O’Hara does not spare anybody. It’s not soft. There’s no safety within the realm of the play. If you have a sense of humor when it comes to these topics and you are not deeply reverent with them, you’ll likely have a better time. We have had some discussions about real concerns— like what if protesters show up? What if Pro-Lifers show up? So we’ve put some thought into that.  

What have been some of your other logistical challenges with Mankind?

Ann: Like I mentioned before. Things like— ‘how many baby dolls can I buy in bulk without breaking my budget or getting flagged for shopping for too many baby dolls.’ Is 140 too many? We want plastic-blow-mold style dolls. You know the plastic creepy ones that just sit there. You know how in certain futuristic plays you get this sense of utter dystopia. Like in 1984 where everything is gray and lifeless and drab? I asked my designers to move in the opposite direction. And that has been a challenge. This show’s aesthetic is much more retro-futuristic meets John Waters. It’s fun and bright. It’s chaos and neon.

To me it feels like John Waters inspired a Meow Wolf installation…every time I log onto the Iron Crow website, I have to avert and shield my eyes because it’s electro-shock bubble-gum neon-stripper-bar pink-purple.

Ann: You totally just captured the feel of the temple! I’m so glad that’s coming across. Because we have these conversations and discussions— like if in the future, if women did not exist, first of all, would men even be alive? And a lot of people’s immediate response is, “no, because they’d immediately ‘Lord of the Flies’ themselves.” But in what ways would femininity show up? And that takes you down the of how gender and sexuality play into it; depending on what generation you are from, there are some who might present the viewpoint that certain flavors of gay are very feminine, etc. That’s a whole wormhole that we could spend hours and days exploring.

And then there is this whole other side of the coin, because you have a play like this— but here in the reality of 2022 you do have trans-men who can biologically get pregnant. And it’s no longer fantasy. Now, that is not this play— to be clear— the parameters are pretty well outlined. So that particular issue is not in the mix of this play, but it will be in the brains of everybody who is going to see it. You see male bodies, male humans, who are physically carrying a child. It can be a lot for people of older generations to wrap their heads around; the concepts of gender identity have evolved very quickly. The Zoomers are embracing it so quickly while the rest of us are just scrambling to catch up.

You had mentioned planning for the protestors of the pro-life variety. Do you have concerns about ‘The Patriarchy’ showing up to cause problems?

Ann: Nothing would please me more than having some people love it and having others storm out in fury at the intermission. I feel really good about a show that polarizes. I’ve grown into that as I age. I definitely give fewer fucks, first of all. But I’d much rather create something that resonates with fewer people more deeply, than create something generic that will please the masses. If I piss off some dude in the process, oh well. I mean, honestly, the people who need to see this work to get the message are the people who are going to take one look at the poster and just ignore it.

Do you think that this show is going to change the minds of the masses or give them things to think about?

Ann: Iron Crow is a queer theatre. We know we’re preaching to the choir. We assume that everyone who comes out to support us is really liberal and really progressive. But that can’t possibly be the case in reality. Not every single person in the audience is going to be already of our mindset, right? But I mean I’ve been reading the reviews of this play and there is certainly some fun to be had. What I can glean from that, and this is me making a few assumptions, but it seems that this play has struck a nerve with men. It comes out as “it’s chaotic; it’s trying to do too much; it makes me uncomfortable.” Now, they don’t come right out and say the content offends them or the abortion is what bothers me. They make the blanket statement of ‘it’s trying to do too many things.’ I think they can’t purse it and let it wash over them. And that is something that playwright Robert O’Hara excels at. He just throws everything at the wall, all these real, human moments, and if you’re perhaps on the more colorful side of theatre, this is going to be a good experience for you. The play is very clear about who is making these decisions and how we got to this place in the play. It’s going to hit a nerve for some men.

Now that we’ve gone down the rabbit hole of all the reasons people might not come see this play, what are the reasons people should come see it?

Ann: It’s outrageous and fun. It really is ridiculous. It’s visually and topically colorful. There is humor for those so inclined. And really; come for the script. I mean everything you need is in this script. There are puns in this script that only we— on the production side— will get, because they’re hidden in the script and the audience never sees them. But there are treasures all throughout. There are treasures. In some ways its beautiful. In some ways its indicting. What could be better than that?

Is there anything in that beautiful indictment, buried among all the easter eggs and puns and treasures from that script that is your favorite thing or favorite moment?

Ann: There are a couple things that are great. There are two fathers and two sons. And a double wedding that is performed by Timoth and Nicholas as Bob and Bob of the Bob and Bob Show. So now we get to indicting the media and acknowledging their complicity in this. A double gay wedding with a Lutheran and his nine-month pregnant son. What more could you want? Oh! Except for maybe— how do I describe this without giving too much away?

Before we get to the temple, before we get to the big reveal with the promises of all the neon and 16-foot baby and the churchiness, there is this proto-religious scene of this nascent religion forming around the baby. She’s the first female born in over a century. So the feminists converge and begin to worship and I really love it. I haven’t seen many shows where you get to see that happening, they’re showing up to worship; it’s being born in front of your eyes— the religion. It’s fucking rad. Honestly, being in the room is quite the experience.

Anything else you wanted to say about the overall experience?

Ann: Actually, I wanted to share something from one of our cast members. This is from Doug (equity actor Doug Krehbel on special-appearance-contract) and he was saying how you see satire, you see comedy, and you see the premise of the show and you expect to that what you’ll see will be really cartoonish and broad. And in some ways it is, it’s very bright and colorful and hilarious. But it is also just people moving through this situation. There’s a lot of truth at the center. Comedy can say things that drama cannot and get away with it. The show is not all laugh-a-minute or poking fun. Some of it is just really truthful and lovely.

The actors in general, and I agree, say that the show itself is just not predictable. As we work through it at each rehearsal we keep finding all these nuances and surprises. It has 17 scenes. Robert O’Hara just literally let himself write every little thing he wanted to write. And it ends up being the crazy, surprising, prescient thing— remember he wrote it in 2017.

At the end of the day, why should the people come see Mankind?

Ann: Here’s where I live at the end of the day. This play that has been criticized for its too-muchness, is now in the hands of a director who loves nothing more than ‘too-muchness.’ We’re leaning into that. It’s not something that we need to work around. It’s a feature not a flaw. I hope that that— especially here in Baltimore— really resonates. The too-muchness feels Baltimore.

That’s a brilliant reason to come see it. Can you sum up the Mankind experience in just one word?

Ann: Nope. It’s too many things to just be one word. But it has been pretty amazing so far.  

Mankind plays October 7, 2022 through October 23, 2022 with Iron Crow Theatre in residence at Baltimore Theatre Project— 45 W. Preston Street in the Mt. Vernon district of Baltimore, MD. Tickets are available by calling the box office or in advance online.