Thank you all so much for sitting with me! Let’s start with a quick introduction of who you are and who you’re playing!
Brian Ruff: I’m Brain Ruff and I’m playing Max. Bialystock.
Daniel Michel: I’m Daniel Michel and I’m playing Leo Bloom.
Rachel Bagley: Rachel Bagley. Ulla. And please don’t make me say her last name.
I won’t…because then that means I have to figure out how to spell it!
Rachel: I promise I’ll have it by the show!
I’m sure you will. Now what was the draw to want to come out and be a part of The Producers?
Brian: For me it started when I was 19.
Okay, so like two seconds ago. Got it.
Brian: Sure, we’ll go with that. Two seconds…and 33 years ago.
Now you’re going to make me and the readers do math. I don’t do math, Brian. You’re not really 54, are you?
Brian: Nope. I’m 52.
See? Told you I was not good at math! Anyway, this yen to the show started for you 33 years and 22 seconds ago?
Brian: I was 19 years old, I was in college, and I took a directing class. I was looking for a scene to do that I really enjoyed. The only thing that came out that I found in the comedy spirit was Mel Brooks, who I really enjoyed. This was before the musical written. And I found in the school library, a copy of Mel Brooks’ The Producers from the 1967 film. I loved it so much that I just sat there in the school library and transcribed it into a script that I then used for my directing class. I’ve owned that film since 1992 and I probably watch it once a year. The fact that it became a musical with Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick that we went and saw 0n Broadway, and I loved the changes that they made from the film to the show, and just the idea of being able to step into Max Bialystock’s shoes is a dream come true. It’s a role that’s 33 years in the making for me.
That’s wild and I love the deep rich history you have with this. What about for your Daniel, why come out and audition for The Producers?
Daniel: I still go to college so I don’t really have much time to go out for community theatre stuff. This past year, I had a really big move. Me and my mom, we moved out of my childhood home, we moved somewhere smaller and that was obviously taking a pretty heavy toll on my mental state. And I defaulted to what do I do when I’m not feeling great? Watch some comedy stuff. My mom and I sat down and decided to put on a Mel Brooks movie because that’s something we both enjoy. We watched The Producers and I was really enjoying it; it was a really good movie. Then I got an email from my mom, forwarding something from The State Theatre, saying that The Producers was going to be happening here. I had previously done a show here— Tick, Tick, BOOM!— so I knew I needed a summer show to work on, it was a comedy and I haven’t really done many of those, so why not? I came in knowing nobody here, and figured ‘what happens, happens,” and here I am.
Fantastic! Rachel? What was the draw for you?
Rachel: I remember watching the early 2000’s movie version of the musical and I just remember really loving it. The songs are so great and it’s so ridiculously funny and I haven’t seen The Producers be done a lot recently in community theatre. My friend, James Meadows, who’s playing Roger in this production, knew Al (Director Al Herlinger) and I had done Jesus Christ Superstar with him. James was telling me that Al was a really great director to work with, and I knew I loved The Producers and thought it sounded like so much fun. That was basically what brought me out to audition.
Love hearing that. What has been your biggest challenge up to this point?
Brian: For me that has been pretty much straightforward. It’s running away from Zero Mostel. He’s the guy who played the original Max. I had the same exact problem in 2019 and I played Colonel Jessup. You spend just as much time learning the part as you do unlearning the way it’s been done before. During that rehearsal process, I kept hearing Jack Nicholson in my head. We were talking about this yesterday, how different roles who have taken over roles from other people who have made them iconic often end up feeling like they’re imitating the person who made the iconic. You have to get out of the imitation of it.
I’m working on that. I’ve been working on that, using the script. Before we do half-acts, when we’re off-book? I try to re-transcribe the script and write my own directions into each line. Like what do I think about this? I’m realizing I think I’m going to try and add a layer of desperation and sadness to this character. I was just thinking about when the audience first meets Max in that first scene. It’s a month after that opening number, right? I’m realizing, this guy is probably running from creditors. He was probably kicked out of his apartment, that’s why he’s living in his office. He’s jumping at every single thing. It was one of those things that I didn’t realize until I was writing it over. He’s jumping at everything that moves and he’s thinking that any day now these two guys named Vince and Rocko are going to show up at his door and bust his kneecaps. That’s been the biggest challenge for me, getting away from iconic people who have done it. This is my Max not theirs.
I find it fascinating that you said you were running from Zero Mostel because I feel like so many people, perhaps in our generation and younger generations are going to be looking for Nathan Lane. So you’re not only running from Zero Mostel but now you’re also running from Nathan Lane. I think that’s going to be a fascinating challenge that I cannot wait to see! Now what about you, Daniel? What has been your biggest challenge? Probably not running from Zero Mostel.
Daniel: No I don’t think so. Unless he just started chasing me from out of nowhere. Like a ghost—
Brian: He’s very easy to beat in a sprint!
Oh my!
Daniel: I think my biggest challenge, and Al can attest to this as well, is the emotional arc that Leo has starting from the first scene, all the way to the final scene. As a person, as you can already tell, I’m very fidgety. I get nervous by things very quickly and very easily. Having that as early Leo, I can work with that and figure this out. This is also my first leading role in a community theatre show. There’s also been that kind of stress with this character. As soon as I found out I was going to be Leo, I got the script, sat my mom down and said, “We’re going to run this until I get off book.” Luckily, I was able to get off book relatively quickly. But the whole arc of his emotions— Leo by himself, Leo with Max, Leo with Ulla, which personally might be one of my most difficult mindsets to put myself into— it’s a lot.
Working with Brian, it’s been pretty easy to find the companionship between Leo and Max because I’ve lived through something similar to that. I was always the timid one. I’ve always had friends who are very boisterous and very vocal.
You’re boisterous, Brian, did you know that?
Brian: I’ve been accused of some boisterousness.
Daniel: He’s easy to work with. But it’s been a good amount of time since I’ve had a romantic interest in a show. Gosh, since at least 2020? Definitely pre-Covid, like a month before everything shut down. It was in this play called Smart People at my old college. Did that show, then had this side-character/extra/ensemble limbo for a while. Rachel has been making it so simple and easy to just get closer not only as Leo but as people in general.
I’m really glad to hear that you’re finding it easy to develop these relationships with both Brian and Rachel that’s always really wonderful to hear.
Daniel: I honestly don’t think I would have been able to have gotten as far as I’ve gotten with Leo without these two having my back. I truly appreciate it. Love you both.
Brian: We love you too. This whole cast is very tight.
We love a tight cast. Rachel, what about you? What’s your biggest challenge?
Rachel: It’s funny because there’s actually a lot that Daniel said that feels very similar on my end. A little background, I’m kind of fairly new to getting back into theatre. I did theatre back when I was in high school and college, but then I had about a ten-year gap where I just couldn’t find the work-life balance I needed to make it happen. So the first show back I did was back in 2022 and I’ve been really trying to put in the work. This is so exciting that this is my second time having a bigger role. When Al called me and told me I was Ulla, I honestly was flabbergasted. I thought that there was going to be someone else who was a better singer and dancer who would get this role.
I’ve been working on a lot of stuff. The dancing in itself has been a challenge because I’m definitely more of a mover. But also the other thing that I did not anticipate being a challenge but has been really great both as character growth and for personal growth is, I’ve never felt ugly but I’ve also never felt like an ‘IT GIRL” and Ulla is definitely an ‘IT GIRL.’ It’s been this personal challenge to really find the confidence and the sexual prowess that she has. Especially at this point in my life too. I’m a little bit older and I’m a little bit heavier than I used to be so it’s really also been teaching me to really appreciate myself and things like that. It’s been a really interesting journey.
You own it, you find that confidence, and you will be the IT-iest IT GIRL in the room. I have confidence.
Rachel: Thank you!
Brian, what is your favorite moment as Max?
Brian: Oh man…
Daniel: You should have anticipated this question, man.
Brian: Yeah. Good grief! Wow…the thing about it is…Mel Brooks is probably one of my favorite…no. If there’s a Mount Rushmore of people I love in performing arts, one of them is Mel Brooks. Maybe Stephen Speilberg but definitely Mel Brooks. Now it’s funny, because probably the most joy that I get out of it is the moment these two— Max and Leo— have a genuine friendship, which is the end of the show. It’s an interesting moment. Al and I were talking about this yesterday and the day before. This show is Leo’s journey. It’s his journey from being the worker bee to being someone who is independent and has his own wants and needs in his own right. Max kind of just says the same the whole time. He’s a cad at the beginning and he’s a cad at the end. From what they do in “Prisoners of Love”, he’s learned NOTHING. But the one thing that Max does get at the end is a friend, which he did not have before. He had nothing before. He has nothing plus one when he gets to the end of the show. The moments where the friendships are genuine are just great.
There’s also another one— and it’s such a simple moment in the show, we were rehearsing it last night, where they say it’s bad luck to say good luck on opening night. And you have that whole number, and then Franz breaks his leg, he convinces Roger to take over, and then Leo and Max go up to center stage and say “good luck!” to one another, in both senses of the word. They say it in the “let’s make a flop” and also in this legitimate moment of friendship.
Daniel: You’re going to make me cry.
Brian: That’s twice I’ve almost made you cry.
I love it. We’re getting all the emotions going here. Daniel, what is your favorite moment as Leo?
Daniel: There are so many good moments. Kind of like what Brian was saying with the whole ending bit of becoming a friend. I think one of my favorite moments in the show is the very top of Act II. I remember when we first blocked it, it was wild. It’s Max and Leo, going into the office, they’ve got the stuff from the theatre and they’re all ready to go, but suddenly “Oh, sorry, wrong office.” So we just leave. We just show ourselves out. But it’s actually where we’re supposed to be and we don’t recognize it because she’s cleaned the whole place.
Brian: That is a great moment.
Daniel: It’s so fun. The way you catch yourself is just so good. I’m not even a foot behind him, so when he stops, I bump right up into him, and then we just roll out.
We love physical comedy.
Brian: There’s plenty of physical comedy in this.
Daniel: Especially at my expense. That is somewhat the track of Leo, though. Oh, then after that moment, there is this dream sequence-esque number called “That Face” where Ulla and Leo finally become a pairing, they become a couple.
Spoiler, Max Bialystock…you don’t get the girl.
Brian: Yeah…yeah…I know…
Daniel: He’s just a catalyst for Leo to get the girl. But I think that number is what started Rachel and my companionship. It was pretty early in the process when we first learned the choreography for the dance break in there. There was a lot of at home practice, “is it this foot? Is it the other foot? I’m not sure…”
Brian: But that whole scene— I love not being in that scene because then I get to watch it. I love not being in that scene in the sense that I get to watch it because it is so adorably genuine. Between both of them, it’s really, really fun.
Daniel: As we’ve become closer as people and as characters as time has been going on, it’s felt almost like a second nature at this point. That number is when Leo’s cares wash away and he feels like he has a purpose now and he knows what he’s going to do. Having that whole number and getting the character built on top of it and actually getting some of the emotions that he’s feeling— I have a partner, I know what I’m doing with life now.
Rachel: Honestly, that’s what I was going to say was my favorite moment too. “Flaunt It” is such a fun song, obviously it’s her big moment. But we worked so much on “That Face” to begin with, and I appreciate you shouting me out, Daniel, but you’ve been a really good scene partner right from the get-go. We had really good communication, we established a great rapport, which I really appreciate. Just the amount of work that we got into it. And now when that number gets rehearsed, we know it and can just play around with it, and it’s so much fun.
Daniel: It’s become less work and more enjoyable.
Brian: There’s a point— well, if you’re lucky— in community theatre, there’s a point during the rehearsal process where people aren’t waiting for their turn to talk and they’re listening. They’re listening and reacting to the person next to them. It’s been a long time since I’ve actually been in a show where that transition started this early on in the rehearsal process. We’re three and a half weeks out from opening and everyone is reacting and playing off of each other. To a point where this is not park-n-bark. It’s just been great.
Rachel, I know you had mentioned some struggles with the choreography because you said you’re a mover not a dancer, but how are we all finding the choreography in general? Because all three of the characters do at least a little bit of dancing.
Brian: Luckily, I do the least. I am not a dancer. No. But I will tell you a story. When I was in college, I was Fred Graham in Kiss Me, Kate. And you have the scene at the very beginning where you have him talking to the whole cast before the get into “Another Opening, Another Show.” I was so bad at the dancing component of things, that I came in, did my bit, riled up the cast and got them ready, and left. They did “Another Opening, Another Show”, the whole big number, that whole big thing that everybody knows. They did it and I walked in for the finale tableau between the two girls and I lifted my arms. That was it. That sums up my dancing career right there.
So what I’m hearing is that it’s pretty solid. Good grief. This is hilarious. Brian- no dance-dance and very happy to not have to do it. What about you two? Daniel, you’ve got the tap number, right?
Daniel: I do. Rachel’s also a part of that.
Rachel: Yes I am. We have a smaller ensemble so I’m doubling up in some of the ensemble numbers, which honestly I was really excited about because I have taken some dance classes at Towson between shows and I’ve really been wanting to do a tap number. And I actually asked Al, “Can I please be in “I Want to be a Producer” since I have enough time. I’ve been really excited about the challenge of the dancing, honestly.
That’s fantastic. What about you, Daniel?
Daniel: I remember growing up, I took a couple years of tap lessons. When I was 18 or so, I went back to that same studio with the same director, who I’ve grown to have as a friend at this point— Kathy Quigley, good old Pennsylvania crowd. Whenever I needed anything tap related I would go to her ask her could she help me with it. I did a show with her— The Wizard of Oz— and I was the Tin Man. I had this little tap section in “If I Only Had a Heart.” We did one day where we rehearsed it, then afterwards we spray-painted my tap shoes silver. I had to get new tap shoes for this because I don’t think Leo has silver tap shoes.
Al Herlinger: Gold.
You’ve breathed it into the ether, Al, I will now be looking for those gold tap shoes.
Daniel: Maybe we can get some glitter on it too!
I second that. Glitter and gold tap shows. Now, Brian, what is the biggest thing that you and Max have in common? Where do you two come together?
Brian: Oh man, that’s a question.
Daniel: I think it’s more what do you want to admit to?
Rachel: Actually, it’s so funny, because just the other day Brian was talking about how he’d had all these dating fails earlier in life and I actually asked him, Brian, were you a f**k boy? And he said, “people thought I was but I wasn’t!”
Brian: This conversation has just hung such a hard left…
This is the best part of these interviews, honestly. Did everyone just think you were like a magic playboy but you were really just striking out all the time?
Brian: Yes. Pretty much. I got dumped hard on multiple occasions. I was dump-ee at all times. I was never the dumper. The funny thing is, the thing that I have in common with Max, is when you’re a performer, especially as a community theatre actor, you have your life. You have your regular, IRL stuff that you’re doing. Then you come here and you perform. I think every actor has a little fear in the back of their mind as to whether or not they’re just superficial.
Rachel: Imposter syndrome.
Brian: Yeah, imposter syndrome. I know personally, just in my work-day life, I feel that imposter syndrome. I’ll be sitting there in a meeting and I’ll think to myself, “Do I know what I’m doing here?” And I think that’s the funny thing about Max. During “The King of Broadway” he gets up and he says, “I used to be the king” and he talks about being the king of all Broadway and how far he’s fallen. I don’t think he’s fallen at all. I think he’s been a sad-sack the whole time. I think what actually happened to him was he got lucky a few times. Like “Bialy Hoos” of 42, that young Leo went to see. I think that Max got lucky a few times but then his incompetence finally outran his luck. He just crashed back to earth. He went back to his level of intelligence. During the song, “King of Broadway” he says, “here are all my great ideas. But all his ideas suck. Summerstock in the winter, theatre in the square where nobody had a good seat. And you listen to that and you realize he doesn’t actually know what he’s doing. This whole scheme is funny but its also very desperate. I think feeling like a grown-up, even at 52, you get that feeling of being out on a limb a lot. Feeling like you don’t know what you’re doing— that’s what I have in common with Max. I mean I hope I don’t end up in jail!
Oh my! What about Leo? Daniel, where do you find yourself intersecting with commonality when it comes to you and Leo?
Daniel: There’s a lot. I think Al can tell you that. Ever since the actual audition for this show— I think Rachel was auditioning at the same time with me— and I went up for auditions and was essentially nervous sweating through the whole thing. But that works for Leo— that’s how I got cast!
I ran the words for my audition song and completely blanked. There’s that whole nervous energy that I give off that Leo definitely gives off.
So you and Leo are a little nervous.
Daniel: It goes a whole lot further than that. A little bit of what Brian was talking about with the imposter syndrome. There’s the ‘want’ to be in show-business but being too scared that you can’t do it. I started acting when I was eight years old. I was in Seussical. I played Jojo for one night and fell in love with it. It was the classic, “here’s a baseball bat, go play sports” and I tried it, went out into left field— not for me.
There’s one line that always sticks with me from this show, and it’s “I want to be a producer because it’s everything I’m not.” That’s how I feel as an actor. I’m only 23 years old and by some luck of the draw, I look like the way I do. I don’t know that I can really change that but I fear that’s going to impede my progress of what I’m able to do in the future, if I choose to pursue this as a career. There’s kind of that fear in the back of my mind, if I don’t figure out how I can do it, I don’t know if I can. It eats away at you. That’s one of the struggles that I face the hardest as an artist— my self-image.
It’s a bit like what Rachel was saying earlier, and it’s a line that Leo has in “We Can Do It”, he says, “When it comes to wooing women, there’s a few things that I lack.” I haven’t really been lucky when it comes to acting— like at my college, I feel like there’s always someone better than me. Or in community theatre, there’s always going to be someone better than me. All of this time, that feeling has built up and it makes me feel like I’m not ready or I’m not good enough to do this.
Brian: I think your desire to rise above what you think are limitations and your awareness of them is kind of your superpower. That energy drives your performance. That’s a powerful thing. I love baseball movies, I love the sport, you mentioned baseball earlier, and there’s this great scene in Bull Durham where Kevin Costner tells the Nuke LaLoosh character, the pitcher who gets called up to the big leagues, he tells that character, “…go play the game with fearful arrogance.” It’s this combination of being afraid because of all of those things that you just mentioned, Daniel, but you’re determined to rise above it. I love that concept. I feel like theatre and baseball have the same fearful arrogance. You’re trying to perform, despite the fact that you have all these doubts— and that’s your superpower.
Al: And you’ve got the instincts. I’ve never had to tell you more than once when I’m looking for something. You take direction and you’ve got those instincts, don’t ever think you don’t have that, Daniel.
It sounds like they know you pretty well, Daniel. And the confidence will come in time. I know it’s hard when you feel like you’re constantly staring down the face of rejection, and that gives you the “there will always be someone better” mindset. But I think you have to give yourself grace and remember that it isn’t that they’re necessarily better, it’s that they’re just what that particular at that particular time for that particular show was looking for and just because you weren’t it doesn’t mean that you’re not good enough to be in the room.
Daniel: Absolutely. I’ve been told that by many a therapist. It’s just hard to take it in and believe it.
Brian: We have a 23-year-old daughter and she’s an opera singer. She’s done a lot of different opera auditions and had similar experiences; she’s had rejections. She’s a very, very good singer, but we tell her the exact same thing. Directors are looking for puzzle pieces. They’re fitting puzzle pieces together to make a picture. And you could be an amazing puzzle piece in this puzzle or a different puzzle, it all depends on how they want to fit everything together. I think it’s Brian Cranston who talks about that, he says that you shouldn’t think of an audition as an audition because every audition is a performance. You’re giving a five-minute performance, showing them the best possible puzzle piece that you are, and then it’s in God’s hands. Whatever happens happens. You can’t change that.
Daniel: I feel like I just derailed this whole conversation into pity-party territory.
Brian: Absolutely not. We’ve all been there.
Rachel: Yeah, we have. I’ve felt that so many times. It’s frustrating when you’re just trying to do the thing for fun and you still end up in a room where you’re in a room with 50 or 100 people, all auditioning for the same show and you don’t even get a callback.
Brian: Can we get into poetry a little bit? There’s a Robert Frost poem where at the end it says, “where love and need are one, and the work is played for mortal stakes, is the deed every really done for heaven and the future’s sakes.” It’s talking all about people in their life, trying to synthesize the need to be productive and the need to love what they do. And that’s a lot.
Yes it is. And deep. Rachel, before we tear off down another rabbit hole, where and how do you and Ulla come together?
Daniel: Wait, I had one more thing I wanted to add just to wrap this up, and Rachel I’m so sorry, I don’t mean to bite into your time!
Brian: I think this just turned into the Graham Norton Show.
I’ll take that! Daniel, what did you want to add to your Leo-intersection answer?
Daniel: Where Leo and I intersect the most is we want to feel wanted. Having that as Daniel the actor, the want-to-be actor and musician, as the kid who just kind of sits in the back because he doesn’t have anyone to talk to. But here I’m able to take what I’ve had to deal with in the past and use it to my advantage. Just like Leo.
That’s really beautiful. Now, Rachel, where do you and Ulla come together? And you only have three seconds to answer this question! I’m kidding, take your time, we’re here all night. Or until Al throws us out.
Rachel: Haha! Okay, but I think I actually know this one already. On a surface level— I think I might have mentioned it to Al at the auditions but definitely since the auditions— I’m a quarter Swedish. I was sitting here thinking about this too, because again on the surface level, I think Ulla is just kind of there to be a romantic catalyst for Leo, if you just look at it like that. But in trying to bring some more depth to her, the things that I find similar with her…it’s the fun that she is, the flirty-ness, the silliness too. I feel like she’s very outgoing and I’m definitely also very much an extrovert. Those things I find in common with her there, but I also love that she becomes this very supportive person for Leo and I’d like to think that I’m like that with my spouse as well.
Love that. Now what is your favorite musical number that you’re either in or not in, you don’t necessarily have to be in it, but what is the number that is just making this show for you?
Brian: There’s going to be some recency bias here because we just finished tightening “I Want to be a Producer.” It’s very good. And it combines a lot of great tap-dance, singing, and also emotional connection with the character. So you have that and I’d say that’s really up there. But I mean, come on, “Springtime for Hitler”? Come on! That’s my favorite part of the original Mel Brooks movie, when that final tableau hits with Hitler in the background and the stunned silence that anyone would do anything that tasteless. It’s the funniest, sharpest, wittiest, most spectacular number, it’s beautiful.
Daniel: I think just on character alone, it’s a tie between That Face” and “Keep It Gay”, both are fantastic numbers.
Rachel: I love “I Want to be a Producer.” Every time I’ve thought about the movie, the early 2000’s movie, that’s always the one that comes to mind, though also “Springtime.” “Keep It Gay” is just so outrageously funny. It’s so hard to pick one. They are just all so good. But I think “I Want to be a Producer” might edge up a little bit over the other ones, I really love that one.
If you could be anybody in the show regardless of age or gender or singing and dancing capability, but not the character you’re currently cast as…who would you be?
Brian: Oh God. If it was not going to be Max it was going to be Franz. I come from a German ,background. My Dad spoke German. Totally Franz.
Daniel: There’s a tough tie for me with this one. Because Roger is just such an amazing character. Just the fun that I see James (James Meadows playing Roger), the fun that James smacks into every scene that that character is in…honestly I might have just talked myself into it. Roger.
Rachel: I was going to say either Carmen or Roger. James and Ethan Buttman, who plays Roger, they’re just so fabulous. “Keep It Gay” is just so funny and what they’re doing with it is really fabulous. I also have to say— I was fully, honestly prepared to be in the ensemble for this show and we have some great ensemble members too. Even the ensemble members who are playing the “creative team” for Roger during “Keep It Gay.” Jeff Tribbit who plays the ‘choreographer’ in Roger’s creative team, we’ve literally been saying he’s the goat of ensemble because he’s so funny! But really all of the ensemble parts in this show have such ridiculous moments to stand out, it’s just all great. There’s not a bad part in this entire show.
Excellent. That’s always very exciting to hear. What has been the song that has been the biggest challenge for you, either from a vocal or lyrical standpoint?
Brian: Oh boy. Probably “Along Came Bialy.”
Rachel: Oh wow. I was expecting “Betrayed” because that’s such a massive number all by yourself.
Brian: But here’s the thing— “Betrayed” is just—
Isn’t that song just recounting the entire show?
Brian: Exactly! I mean what do I do with that number? I repeat the show. Simple. Straight ahead. Yes, it’s tiring, but it’s simple.
That tracks. So then why “Along Came Bialy?”
Brian: Because of the fact— and we were dealing with this in rehearsal the other day— the goal of this is to have the character component of it and not be as concerned as the vocal aspect of it. Max is less a vocalist than he is a character singer. So what’s happening to him in that number is he’s going to go sacrifice himself— and forgive the expression— but he’s about to go whore himself out. That’s basically what he’s doing. When I first started trying to work on that number, I was just trying to do it as a vocalist. Just singing it up into the rafters but I wasn’t getting it in character. And that number has to be funny but it’s also a little dark. Because he’s basically making this introduction of, “Hi, everybody. I’m about to go whore myself for money. This is the only way I eat. If I don’t do this, I don’t eat.” That song for me is a balance between dark, funny, and charm, all at once. Because that is what he’s doing. The thing that’s going to be nice about it, the way we’re going to play it is we’re doing it in front of the curtain. It’s just me. I have to hit the beginning of it and then come down and work the crowd. That was a big relief for me. As a performer, one of the hardest things is to just be on your own on the stage. The fact that I can go into the crowd and interact with people? That’s great for me. I enjoy scenes where I am bouncing off of other people. The hardest scenes for me are the ones where I’m by myself.
“Betrayed” is easier because you’re pitching to the audience and just literally recounting what’s just happened over the course of the evening and although I’m by myself, that’s not the hard one for me. “Along Came Bialy” is the one that I find to be hard.
What is the song that you’re having the biggest challenge with, Daniel?
Daniel: I think dancing wise it’s “I Want to Be a Producer.” It’s all the tap-dancing. It’s very intense, “go here, go here, go here.” But I think— and I’m about to get vulnerable again for a minute, this might be another 15-minute deep dive into my psyche— but more lyrically and emotionally, I think “Til Him”, which is the song that’s sang in the courtroom near the end, is the challenge for me. Strictly for the fact that when we run the entire show, I will be in tears at that point. It’s like what you say in the song, “Now I’ve finally got a friend at last.” Going back to what I was talking about before, it’s all both me, Daniel, and Leo have ever wanted. We just need someone there. After doing those speeches, addressing the courtroom, and saying, “Sure, he may seem like this bad person but he’s my friend and I care about him.” I’m just a mess. Tears are just going to be streaming down my face.
Rachel: Oh gosh, you’re going to make me cry!
Brian: I am going to say something incredibly selfish now, which is that if you are crying at that moment, it’s going to make when I say, “I never realized—” pause, “—you’re a good singer.” so much funnier. If he’s just over here sobbing and I say that, oh man, that will be hilarious. Because Max will have missed the entire point! This goes back to my theory that Max has changed not at all and learned nothing by the end.
Daniel: This has just been such an absolute pleasure to work on this entire show with everybody involved, I feel like I actually have made friends and I am so lucky I get to share the stage with all these amazing talented people.
That is an incredible thing to experience and feel! Rachel, what is your song-challenge?
Rachel: “Along Came Bialy” was also a challenge, mostly because it gets to that part— it’s like a Les Mis moment where there are all these groups singing. I knew I had to work a lot to find the points where Ulla enters and all that. It’s been so exciting now that we’re finally at the point where we’re able to run that number successfully and it’s so much fun now that it works! The other thing, that I didn’t expect would be as challenging, is actually “Flaunt It.” That has been some work because, maybe about a month ago, I was told I needed to be a bit more at the ‘now Ulla belt’ part. And so I literally started doing jumping jacks and running in place, having my little Taylor Swift moment, while running that song with the track, so that’s been a lot of work in itself too. But now it’s fun. I’m not out of breath anymore, it actually feels really, really easy. It was a surprising extra bit of work but I’m loving it.
What has been your big personal takeaway that you have learned about yourself as an actor, a person, a performer, by being involved with this production of The Producers here at State Theatre with Al?
Brian: Big thing for me is that this show has a special significance for me, but it’s a dual significance. Not just that I was waiting for it for 33 years. When we open on September 6th 2024, it will be five months and four days since I had open-heart surgery. I’ve told the cast. While I was getting ready to have that whole ordeal, I read a book called Back To Life After a Heart Crisis, written by a doctor, and he has this eight-point plan, for getting yourself back into being you again. Point number eight was “take on a huge physical challenge.” Because there are a lot of people, unfortunately, who have that kind of thing happen to them, like a bypass, who wind up pulling back, and they never get back to where they were before. I was incredibly fortunate to have this happen here with this show.
And here’s the weird part. When I was looking back at the script, the first scene in his office? It’s a month after “King of Broadway” has happened, he’s been living in his office, and I didn’t realize they actually put the day that he’s in the office. The day he’s in the office is June 16th. That’s my birthday! This to me, is my coming out party, in terms of getting past a real ordeal in my life.
That is truly incredible. I’m really happy that you’re in a healthy and fit state, both physically, emotionally, and mentally to be able to do this. And congratulations on getting past that, getting through, challenging yourself, and coming out good on the other side.
Brian: Thank you. It has been a ride.
This has been such an incredible— far more deep and emotionally invested interview than I was expecting, from all of you, I’m really honored to be on the inside seat of all this. Not at all where I thought these questions were going to go. Daniel, what about you? What has been your big personal takeaway from this experience?
Daniel: What have I learned about myself…oh God, I don’t even know where to begin?
Rachel: Daniel, if you need a minute I think I might be able to pull my answer together for that question.
Daniel: If you don’t mind, that would be great.
Rachel: Sure! Kind of like branching off what we had talked about earlier with just finding confidence, in general, I’m still learning to take ownership when I have a bigger role. To just own it. Even if you’re struggling to find the confidence in it, just to look inside yourself and fight the fear for it and just go for it. That has been a big thing for me. And tying back into confidence again, I feel like this show has given me the ability to be a more confident person both physically and within myself. It’s been a really exciting moment of self-discovery for me.
I feel like if you’ve gotten to this point, where you’ve gotten through the audition, offered the role, and are in rehearsals, you’ve earned the right to be in the room.
Rachel: I am trying to learn that. It’s a little bit of a struggle but I think I am learning it.
Excellent. Daniel, have you come up with your big personal takeaway?
Daniel: I’m going to need your guys’ hands for this.
Rachel & Brian: You got it.
Daniel: The thing that I’ve learned the most is that I need to let myself be happy from time to time. Whenever I was running lines or rehearsing, if I messed up, even just a little bit, that whole fear of not being good enough just comes rushing back and I would beat myself up over it. Even if it was a missed word, just one word, I was not happy, I would feel like I was a failure. I would feel like everyone’s counting on me and I couldn’t let myself slip up.
It is okay to not be perfect. We are all often our own worst critics and we look at ourselves and judge ourselves far harder than even the critics will judge us. It’s important to remember that you’re doing the best you can with what you have and giving the best that you have to give in that moment that you’re giving it. And I’m sure you’re going to be wonderful.
Daniel: I really appreciate that. Thank you.
Now we’ve still got two more questions—
Al Herlinger: Seriously?
Hey, you gave me deep-thinking actors, that’s all on you! But these last two should be easy. Or at least easier. Why do you want people to come out and see The Producers?
Brian: There is a story about Mel Brooks— he got into an elevator and a woman got in the elevator with him and recognized him and she said, “I found your show The Producers very vulgar.” And he looked at her and said, “Ma’am, it rose below vulgarity.” That is my favorite line ever from Mel Brooks. We are living through a really serious time. And we’re also living through a time where a lot of discourse out in the world is devoid of humor and understanding. Come in here and enjoy something that is a little goofy and stupid. Goofy and stupid but also smart in a way that kind of sneaks in at the end. Coming in here and rehearsing every night, I feel like I’m in a little oasis of goofiness and warmth in a world that’s really consumed by a lot of seriousness and strife right now. That’s why I think you should come. Get out of the seriousness and strife for a while and be goofy and stupid.
Daniel: I want people to come see the show because the level of dedication that everyone in the cast and on the creative side— you know, director, choreography, music— everyone has just been working their absolute butt off. It would be a shame for people to not come and appreciate that.
Rachel: The score and the book is so funny within itself, there’s enough to laugh at just from that. But we literally have been having the best time at rehearsals. I am so excited to go every single time because we just have a great time. We sit there and we laugh and we just really enjoy each other. We’ve worked so hard for it, but we’re already having such a good time so I know that other people are going to have a good time seeing us have a good time. There is so much that feels really, really close to being ready to put out in front of people. I have a lot of pride in it and I know it’s going to be a really, really good show.
I am thrilled to hear that! Anything else anyone would like to say about the experience as a whole before we get into the final question?
Rachel: I’ll say a thing. And I said this to Al before. One thing I really wanted from this experience was to be challenged. I wanted the opportunity to learn new dance skills, also to be challenged as an actor as well and I feel like I’ve really gotten that opportunity with this. It’s been a great way to grow in those skills. That’s one thing I’ve been really happy about with this whole experience.
There are type styles of answer for this last question, it’s either BAM-answer. Or contemplating and agonizing for 20 minutes.
Brian: So what I’m hearing is I get 20 minutes to answer this question.
- And you’re first. Rachel and Daniel that’ll give you a moment, hopefully, to think, unless he answers really quickly. So here it is— if you had to sum up your experience working on The Producers here at The State with Al in just one word, what word would you use?
Brian: Family.
Daniel: You just had to do that. You just had to go fast.
Rachel: Oh! I know mine. Joy.
Daniel: I don’t know if I can put it in just one word?
That’s the challenge.
Daniel: I have the word on the tip of my tongue…I just can’t…why is my brain like this today? I know the word— I’m so sorry, this is going to pad out the run time so badly…
As if we’re not already deep down the rabbit hole here. You guys have been so lovely, as Daniel thinks on his word, truly! This has been a really endearing experience getting to hear all of the amazing self-discoveries and wonderful reasons why people should come and see this show. It’s been a wild evening and this reminds me why I love my line of work so much.
Daniel: Do words with hyphens count?
Sure! I’ve got a kid now who every show I’ve interviewed him for has said Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious as his word, and neither show was Mary Poppins, so sure, we’ll count hyphens.
Daniel: Life-saving.
The Producers plays from September 6th 2024 through September 15th 2024 at The State Theater of Havre de Grace— 325 St. John Street in historic downtown Havre de Grace, MD. Tickets are available at the door or in advance online.
