Everybody’s playing the game. But nobody’s rules are the same. Who’s side will you be on? The Soviet’s? The American’s? Third Wall Productions’? In a TheatreBloom exclusive interview, we sit down with three of the principals of Third Wall Productions’ upcoming production of Chess to get a feel for this first return-to-live performances for 2022.

Thank you all again for sitting down with me in person and giving me some of your time for this! If you can tell everyone who you are and who you play in Chess, we’ll go from there!

J Purnell Hargrove: I am J Purnell Hargrove, they/them, and I play Freddie Trumper. Freddie is the American.

Henry Cyr: I am Henry Cyr, he/him/his, and I am playing Anatoly Sergievsky, The Soviet. I’m saying Soviet because it exemplifies the time period in which this show takes place.

Siobhan Beckett: I am Siobhan Beckett, she/her/hers, and I’m playing Florence Vassy.

What is it about Chess that drew you to want to be a part of it?

Siobhan: Chess has basically been one of my favorite shows since I was really young. It’s a really interesting piece. I grew up listening to it because my mom is a huge fan of the concept album. This is a bucket-list goal; this is definitely a dream role that I’ve wanted since I was like eight. It’s always been on the list.

Henry: I don’t have the same history but I loved Chess as soon as I discovered it was a musical, which was about seven or eight years ago. I grew up loving the song “One Night in Bangkok”, never really knew it was from a musical, just thought it was an awesome 80’s song. I kind of fell into Chess, oddly enough, through Josh Groban, because I’m a big fan of his, I saw him in the concert version and I thought, “this is really good!” And then J and I started talking about it as soon as we became friends.

J: Yeah, it’s always been in the conversation because I always wanted to do Chess. I’ve always thought it was so weird and so not what is generally expected in musical theatre. It’s weird. And it’s not done to death.

What has been your biggest challenge with this production so far?

Henry: I’ll bite. I’ll say the music is extremely challenging, and I know this may be something that the two of you will share with me but coming out of the Pandemic and exercising those muscles of being in rehearsal again and singing again, it kind of made me feel like I’ve been out of school and I’ have to learn how to study all over again. And as unique and special of a piece of theatre and as a score that this is, it’s very challenging. The music has been a crash-course in reacquainting yourself with singing and all of that stuff. I would say that’s probably been my biggest challenge and it’s getting easier the more we do it, of course, but it’s quite a white whale.

Siobhan: I think something that drew me to the show in general is that the music is so complicated. It’s really, really complex music and growing up listening to the concept album, which is very 80’s dance-synth— it’s very Bonnie Tyler, Pat Benatar 80’s rock music. Listening to the actual concert version was very jarring for me. Because I had sat down and watched the Josh Groban and Idina Menzel version and went, “Where did all this recitative come from? Where did all of this Rogers & Hammerstein Opera come from? I thought this was 80’s rock music.” It’s both of those worlds, which has always been really interesting to me as a performer and vocalist, who really likes rock music but who already likes that trained operatic classic sound.

J: That’s exactly it. My training is so both of those things. Having to switch between them and know when to use which, that is probably the biggest challenge. I’m still figuring that out! My voice ultimately elastic. It’s very easy to pick out of a crowd, it’s elastic and it can do a lot of things but it shifts when I do that. So how do I create a character that sounds the same when I’m doing two different types of technique?

How would you say the roles of Freddie, Anatoly, and Florence, are similar to or different from other roles that you’ve done in the past or even similar to or different from your own personal existence as a human?

J: I’m a performer of color that exists in a system that’s not for me and every time I walk on stage, it doesn’t matter what character I’m playing, I’m playing a black person. I’m playing a person of color. I’m playing me. That’s who Freddie is. I walk out on stage and I’m a black dude. And I’m inhabiting that in part of this and that’s what speaks to me in this. I’d like to live in a world where in the 80’s there could be a black chess master that is the most famous person in the world and that’s what happens here.

Henry: Anatoly is probably one of the “closer to me” characters that I’ve played, which is also a challenge because I like putting on a mask of someone else and disappearing into someone else. Beyond working on his music, going through his thought processes of being in a organization of countries that does not represent his actual homeland but having to play the game and support the machine but also wrestle with my conscious and say “there’s something more.” I want to feel like I would do what he does if I was in that position. I think it’s pretty noble. It’s been fun but given what is actually going on in the world right now, that has informed a lot of my sensibility about his character and his relationship with the other two folks in the room. There was one rehearsal where I was working on one of my songs and it was kind of hard for me to get through it. That was the first time where I had sung it in front of anybody else and I hadn’t been overly emotional. It’s just so close to what’s going on right now. Doing an 80’s Cold War musical in 2022, you wouldn’t think it would be as relevant as it is.

J: Also with this cast, with what we have going on here, with the way we are, the way we look, the way we perform, it’s very timely in a “who knew that a musical from the 80’s would matter this much in the world right now?”

Siobhan: I feel like it’s shifted so much just even in the two years since we’ve been planning it and cast it. We had a vision and a goal in mind and then we had another vision and a goal in mind a couple months ago and then all of this happened. And that has kind of shifted and gelled in place, definitely. Florence is also one of the “closest-to-me” kind of characters that I’ve ever played and also since this is such a semi-concert staged format that there’s so much of ourselves that is in it, as opposed to putting on a mask of a full character, but I think for me what’s been going on lately has been really interesting and insightful and really horrible to see because Florence is from Hungary. A lot of what she comes from is the uprising of Budapest in 1956. She was a really small child when that happened. That’s really been eye-opening for me. I didn’t know much about that history going into this show. I knew something bad happened, there was a revolution, but now that context is just so in-your-face right now. So that has been really interesting.

For me, I think a lot of Florence is about her relationship with the other two character. She is the second in chess, which means she is the assistant and the manager and she does all of these other things without actually having her own talents recognized. So that, as a fem-presenting person, as a woman, speaks to me. I’m lucky that I work in art and there are more advantages than some other fields but there’s always sexism and bias that you come across. Also, just the treatment that she has from both of those people. It’s not black and white, there’s no villain and there’s no hero in any of these relationships and it’s all very muddy and very real. It’s really complicated! I can just remember being a young kid and a young pre-teen or teenager and thinking, “this is some real shit in this musical.” This is really complicated relationships, with people breaking up and getting back together and are they really together and there’s just a lot of really raw stuff in it that spoke to me as being real human relationships as opposed to being big, grand theatre ordeals.

J: And we could simply just do that. The big grand theatre-ordeals. But we are not those performers. There’s always layers to everything we’re doing; we’re thinking what’s beneath being said and pointing out that there’s subtext everywhere.

Henry: I think the way that the show has evolved over the last couple of years, and what Lance (Director Lance Bankerd) is being the catalyst and the guide for and letting us explore and discover is that this is a very strange show. In the rights packet that we got from the clearing house, Tim Rice (composer) has a letter that basically says “We tried. Be my guest, rip it apart, do whatever you want.” This show is just odd. It didn’t run on Broadway for 20 years, there’s never been a movie, but whatever. We were discussing this at rehearsal and we were saying that maybe that’s because nobody has ever taken it as a heightened as we’re trying to? Even if the chaos of the world wasn’t happening right now, the approach that we’re taking to this show is very over the top. It’s a rock opera. I think maybe other productions haven’t quite noticed or recognized the strangeness and they haven’t found a way to embrace it.

What is the moment in this show that defines the show of Chess for you?

J: Oh, spoilers for me! Because people don’t know this show there’s a lot to be excited about. I think I can gently say that the show gets started for me when we’re in Rogers & Hammerstein for no reason and we don’t know why we’re there. We’re just in a Rogers & Hammerstein show. And then Freddie bursts through and no— we’re at a rock concert. The whole show is sort of like that. We’re in this recitative moment that breaks out into somebody having a very emotional song about where their allegiances lie. We have randomly funny moments that turn into somebody breaking down and thinking about where they come from and who they are. It’s that dichotomy of things. For me, personally, it’s a bunch of different moments. For the character it is— SPOILERS.

Henry: For me, the moment where I feel completely honest and where I’m in the crosshairs the most is— SPOILERS. But I think the interesting thing about the story and the way we’re building it is that each of us have a trajectory. We’re all on the path at one point or another but never at the same times. That’s what makes it really exciting. We’re building a world outside of what the audience will see when they’re sitting in the seats watching us sing and scream at each other for a couple of hours. Hopefully that will get everyone engaged to realize there’s a whole universe in there.

J: There’s a world outside of what you’re seeing on stage if everything goes the way that we planned it.

Siobhan: There’s just so many moments in the show. Part of what I really enjoy about it is that all of us get— and not just one moment— but a couple of really shining moments. We get big shining solos. I don’t feel I’m just the woman in the show who gets one song and all the other people get a million songs.

J: Here! Here!

Siobhan: Everybody gets multiple of those moments and it’s really, really cool. There’s a lot of moments where we have our solos but there’s also those moments where we all come together as this big giant group that are also really beautiful and transformative. That’s my best non-spoiler answer.

If you had to define your character as a chess piece, what would it be?

Henry: I don’t think J and I are going to be the same piece.

J: No we’re not.

Henry: But I’m afraid what I’m going to say— you’re going to say “no, you’re not.” I feel like I’m the knight.

J: No you’re not, Henry!

See? It’s like you brought to fruition, Henry. You put it out there and therefore J had to say it.

J: No seriously. I’m not going to dictate what your character is, but I’m interested to see why you think Anatoly is the knight because I feel the same way.

Henry: I feel like Anatoly is the knight because there’s a code of chivalry that he lives by and I feel like maybe the other characters do not. And I feel like knight— for me— it’s a solitary piece. If it doesn’t move carefully it gets out of the game really fast. If used properly it can have a really good long time.

J: And it moves unexpectedly.

Henry: Yeah. Not as flashy as some pieces. I will also say this. I do play chess. I have played chess every day— I started playing chess religiously every day in spring of 2020. I’m not saying I’m great; I play against the computer.

J: Henry’s still mad I have not accepted his online invite to play him in chess. But I do play chess. Also on the computer.

Siobhan: I mean I can accept his invite but now I don’t want to, now that I know he’s been playing for two years straight!

He just said he’s not good!

Siobhan: J, you and I can play together then!

Henry: When I started playing chess, I had a couple pieces that I relied on that always got me the win. Then I started playing with the knight, thinking it would be a throwaway but it has served me well.

J: I think Freddie is a pawn about to be promoted.

Siobhan: I was not expecting you to say that.

J: Freddie is a pawn at the other end of the board, about to be promoted and deciding what piece he’s going to be. When a pawn reaches the other side, you decide what piece that pawn becomes. That’s where Freddie is for most of the show. The thing is though, Freddie isn’t a pawn, generally. Which is why I say he’s a pawn that’s about to get promoted because there’s more to that than just “I’m moving straight ahead.”

Siobhan: I don’t feel like mine’s as deep as either of those now! Florence is the Queen. It seems like such an easy, surface answer, but when you look at it, it is her story. It is her show amidst all of this. It’s an ensemble piece, there’s a lot going on, there’s a lot of working cogs in the machine, but everything does boil down to being her story. That’s really interesting because she is so unsung and so unseen throughout— leading up to that point where the show starts. She is the second, she is assisting these other people. But the queen is such a versatile piece. She can move to any place. You might not get to use it until towards the end of the game but it does everything. It has way more power than the king in the game. That’s an easy answer for me.

If you could be any other character in this show, any and every restriction aside, who would you be?

J: The Mayor of Morena…no…I don’t know. I just like the music so for me it’s not even about which character I want to be— I just want to sing it. All of it. I want to do a solo concert where I sing all the numbers. I’ll play all the parts. I’ll be doing a concert version of Chess as a solo.

Henry: I feel like if I had to pick a character, I’d say Svet (Svetlana) because she’s kind of in and out and she gets great songs. I wouldn’t want to sing the entire show. I’ll let J do that.

J: You can sing Svet in my own personal version of Chess.

Siobhan: I don’t know, I think it’s a little like J was saying. There was so many songs I love to sing. Like I love singing “Anthem.” I don’t know if I want to play Anatoly, necessarily, but I’ve always really liked a lot of Freddie’s songs because they lean in that rock direction. You can really scream them and belt them out. For me, I always sort of assumed that I would play Svetlana if I was ever to do this show because Florence is such a heavy lead and it just takes so much technical work and it’s also such a love-interest part. So I always just sort of memorized Svetlana’s songs. And they’re beautiful songs. I would love to do just a solo concert of every song. J and I can alternate on different nights for this show.

What is it that you’re hoping that people are going to take away from seeing this production of Chess?

J: First? WOW. Because these people who I get to lovingly be on stage with— y’all don’t even know. You all do not even know what you’re in for. So that. But I also think we judge people by how they appear initially. In this entire show, nobody is what they appear to be. There’s always somebody trying to pull your strings. There’s always somebody that’s got an opinion of you and they are almost always incorrect. That’s what I hope people can take a little kernel of that with them.

Henry: That’s a great answer. I feel like on a surface level, I feel like this is going to be unlike anything people have seen in a while and I think that works to our advantage. It’s not a big “let’s all get in a big kick-line and dance” sort of show. Those are great and have their place. But the way this show exists, kind of as a hybrid of a rock concert and an operetta and a church service— because there’s a wonderful church choir that sings beautiful music with us— it’s this crazy multi-media theatre experience that people have been missing over the last few years.

Siobhan: We were talking a little about this before during one of our group chats, one thing that I always come back to with art— we do it to talk about the human condition and what is currently happening right now in order to facilitate a conversation and hopefully some sort of healing around what’s going on right now. I think it’s a goal that we didn’t necessarily have before but that’s part of the purpose of doing any kind of art, especially theatre. It feels different now, doing this show. Before I was like “yay! I get to show off my voice.” Now it’s like “this is what we can add to the global conversation” and hopefully make people think about what’s going on and bring in some kind of context.

What is your big personal takeaway? What have you learned about yourself being a part of this production?

J: Firstly, things don’t change. Strangely enough. So many things don’t change in a very real way. Things that I used to fear when I was younger are still things that I fear. The difference is I’m smarter, people around me are smarter, so I may still feel the same way but it doesn’t sting the same way. The reaction isn’t the same. This sounds very pessimistic. But while I’m saying things don’t change— but look at what is happening with the world right now. This is timely. Either things are cyclical or things don’t change. We have to be the ones that change our circumstances. And the characters in this show change their circumstances.

Siobhan: I think, and this has to do with finally coming out of the pandemic, I feel like I’ve still got it in me. Which is good because two years of just complete uncertainty about all of our careers and if any of us were going to return to art, I know that was something I was getting on the verge of thinking, and just knowing that I still have it in me— physically to be able to carry a show like this and mentally to be able to take on this text and everything? It’s been really validating as a performer. It’s such a monster and a bear of a show to tackle. So that’s been really, really validating coming out of nothingness at just— zero to 60.

Henry: I think listening to the two of them here has helped me realize that one of my biggest struggles is patience. I want things immediately and being forced to not have this come to fruition when we wanted it to…I am an introvert 1000 and 10 percent. So spending two years in my head was not the best place to be. But I think coming back to collaborating again but still learning to trust my own intuition and my own experiences has been a challenge but it’s made me like my brain a little more if that makes sense.

If you could sum up the experience of Chess in one word, what is the word you would use?

Henry: Is this our experience in it or just the experience of the show?

Whichever one finds you a word.

Henry: Explosion.

Siobhan: Rock.

J: Polarization.

Chess plays May 13^th through May 22^nd 2022 with Third Wall Productions at their new home in Trinity Episcopal Church— 120 Alleghany Avenue in Towson, MD. For tickets call the box office at 443-838-4064 or purchase them online.